The John Titor Experiment

RainmanTime

RainmanTime

Super Moderator
The definitive discussion of what this lame story (The John Titor Experiment) is really all about:

I've explained enough of my theory that Information Subsumes Physical Energy for intelligent people to be able to put two and two together to determine what The John Titor Experiment was really all about, IMHO. Clearly, The John Titor Experiment was (and some want to continue it on to be) an Information Operation against the USA. We can look at the facts that would lead to this conclusion in a bit, but I can say I have collected enough information (and adversaries on this forum) to convince myself of this fact. Whether I can (or do) convince anyone else does not concern me. That I have the freedom and abilility to point it out to people, and show them how it all fits together as a Psy Op against the American People, is the best reason for me to do exactly this.

So let's look at some of the facts, shall we? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

1) Terrorist elements don't really have the support, backing, and especially the financing sources to be able to kill all the people they would really want to kill.
2) As a result of (1), terrorists (by their very definition) must rely on their ability to frighten people into believing they are all going to die, much more than their ability to actually kill everyone who disagrees with them. Thus...
3) Terrorists need to use propaganda as much as possible to instill fear in their targets, so as to get their targets to comply with their tyrannical wishes.
4) Terrorists could mount an "information campaign" much more efficiently than they could mount a physical campaign of death and destruction. Thus, they will often try to execute Psychological Operations in parallel with, or in place of, actual terrorist bombings and such acts.

Now is where we get a bit more specific in our review of the facts:

5) "John Titor" showed up on the scene in our "worldline" /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif approximately ONE YEAR before the Al Qaeda attacks on New York and Washington on 9/11/2001.
6) "John Titor" was (conveniently) gone from the scene well before the actual 9/11 terrorist operations took place.
7) "John Titor" was based in, and told his story from, southern Florida.
8) We know that several 9/11 terrorist operatives lived and operated in the southern Florida areas prior to executing their 9/11 operations.

But it is in examining the base precept of the John Titor story that we see the terrorist motive:

9) "John Titor" (and his minions who encourage belief in his story to this day) tell a story that they want you to believe that tells how the USA goes down, as a result of social implosion in a terrible, divisive Civil War. Above all things in John Titor's story, this is the central theme that "he" really hopes you will believe will come to pass. At least, that is what "John Titor" clearly wishes to come to pass... the future that "he came from" and describes to you in his story.
10) Terrorist operatives who were "in the know" that the 9/11 terrorist operation was going to hit America would certainly have motive, method, and a benefit associated with trying to "soften" American resolve in taking action on the world stage (to eradicate terrorist cells). If Americans were frightened by a story of a time traveler, telling them that their country will soon descend into a deadly Civil War, then this might weaken America just enough to destroy its stock markets right after the blow of 9/11.

But it all depends upon gullible people believing that "John Titor" was real, his bad physics is real, and his extremely vague predictions for the future are real.

Not me. Sorry, folks. I am not that stupid. Whoever orchestrated The John Titor Experiment is just not smart enough to snare me. And I suggest that the more intelligent and discriminating US citizens will also not be taken-in by Titor's claptrap, nor the weak arguments, apologetics, and excuses posed by all the Titorites who come here extolling Titor's message as somehow relevant.

I am trained in identifying information operations, among other things. And my talents in science are what allow me to smoke them out, and display them for what they are. The John Titor Experiment was somewhat better than a second rate Information Operation against the USA. To a weak mind, it could be convincing. But luckily there are not too many weak minds guiding the ship of the USA.


'Nuff Said!
RMT
 
luckily there are not too many weak minds guiding the ship of the USA.

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Are you so sure about that?
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Heh. I'd be happy to discuss my sureity of this. But first a question for you: Is this the only statement of my post that you have an issue with? Because if you agree with the foundational premise of my analysis, then you should know my answer to your question.

RMT
 
You really need to get professional counseling. You really are obsessed with titor. Don't believe me? Try not posting about titor for one month. I bet you $100 you can't.
 
Is that the best insult you can come up with tonight, MEM? I've seen much better from you in the past. This is a pretty weak effort.

Why should I "not post" about any given topic for a month? How you paint what may, or may not, be my obsessions really doesn't matter all that much to me. I enjoying thinking for myself.

RMT
 
Rainman et al,

On Anomalies I have a thread running that I started yesterday. I'm asking the Community members whether or not it is time to call the Titor Saga a proved hoax (sci-fi story) and put it and him to rest.

I'm going to let the thread run until the first week of the new year. Once I have the results on the community input I'll announce the result.

Obviously, if Western Civilization collapses during the next five weeks or if the Itlian Olympic Committee announces that the games are cancelled or if we have five weeks of Weekly Wacky Waco indicents I'll reserve judgement no matter what the community calls for.

Here's the thread. I know that we have members of both communities here and all members, no matter what their position on the subject, are enbcouraged to post their thoughts.

Thread: Is It Time to Close The "Titor Files"?

Put your comments on that thread. There is also a poll that goes with the discussion. Please participate in the poll.

Is It Time to Close the "Titor Files"? Poll

Thanks (and thank you Raul and Roel for not complaining.
)
 
Rainman,

For once I'm going to have to take the opposite side of the issue. I don't agree with the "Terrorist Theory".

Two of your premises are unrelated to 9-11: The day that Titor started posting and the day that he stopped posting.

Titor started posting here on 2-NOV-2000 just before midnight. That was Election Night 2000. His political position concerned the outcome of the Presidential election.

He stopped posting shortly after Dave Trott not only came at him directly by challenging his physics but when he announced that he was a doctoral candidate in physics at a major university.

"Topics Limited to 11 Pages"

You'll see, starting on 8-MAR-2001 that Trott announces to Titor that he is a physicist. On 10-MAR-2001 Titor announces that he's leaving in about 30 days. On 13-MAR-2001 Trott posts some more questions (and doubt) about Titor's Physics. Later that day Pamela announces that Titor is preparing to leave. Titor never posted again after 10-MAR-2001.

Dave Trott drove him off.
 
I'd say it's an inferiority complex from his teen years. He probably was not very "street smart" and got teased about that in junior and high school. He has surpress those thoughts for years and now in his later years he is trying to overcome that complex by acting the know-it-all about everything. That is where his anger is coming from.

That's my take.
 
Try not posting about titor for one month. I bet you $100 you can't.
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I was always fascinated by that. I can't understand why RMT takes it SO seriously if he believes it is a hoax.

Months before, there was an alleged TT posting (he/she even e-mailed me), I never trusted him/her, so I never took it seriously either.

I like to quote a saying:

"Here we were, the 12 most powerful men in the United States. All the power of government was at our fingertips, but we could not keep a lie together for 3 weeks" - Charles Colson
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But I bet by the end of this year, it would become obvious whether Titor was telling a lie or not.
 
You'll see, starting on 8-MAR-2001 that Trott announces to Titor that he is a physicist. On 10-MAR-2001 Titor announces that he's leaving in about 30 days. On 13-MAR-2001 Trott posts some more questions (and doubt) about Titor's Physics. Later that day Pamela announces that Titor is preparing to leave. Titor never posted again after 10-MAR-2001.

Dave Trott drove him off.
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Could be.

But there is also another possibility. That was the time when the Hercules s/360 emulator (which was in the IBM 5100) was completed with 64-bit extensions. His mission could be to get the emulator, he left soon after that was done.

In autumn 2000, IBM announced a new 64-bit z/Architecture (also known as ESAME or ESA Modal Extensions). Using publicly available information together with his deep knowledge of the evolution of S/360/370/390, Jan Jaeger was able to predict the likely form that the 64-bit architectural extensions would take. This enabled him to design preliminary support for the new architecture, and to implement many of the new instructions in advance of the publication of the full technical details in January 2001. During some busy weekends which followed, I added support in Hercules for 64-bit mode IDAW, Cross Memory and DAT, with the result that at the end of February 2001, only 5 weeks after publication of the z/Architecture Principles of Operation manual, Hercules became the first (and, for 18 months, the only) non-IBM implementation of the new 64-bit mainframe architecture

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rbowler/hercules.htm
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I am not prepared for rnts and flames, but if anyone has a convincing rebuttal for this one, I am eager to hear one because so far, my conversations with the creator and the maintainer of the s/360 emulator has been inconclusive and unconvincing.
 
Hi Darby,
For once I'm going to have to take the opposite side of the issue. I don't agree with the "Terrorist Theory".

Two of your premises are unrelated to 9-11: The day that Titor started posting and the day that he stopped posting.
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Certainly I am not going to try to convince you otherwise. However, I could also agree that Dave Trott drove him off, while not affecting the potential that this was a Psy Op by certain peoples against the integrity of the USA.

I think it is clear we both know Titor was a hoax. That is simple enough to figure out. Once that is established, then one such as myself wants to delve further into his motive for such a story, and for trying to get people to believe that such a future is going to come to pass. There can be many motives, but I do not see any of those motives as NOT being subversive to US interests. And certainly, information is the single, most abundant and easily wielded "weapon" of a terrorist to incite terror.


Did you see that the Olympic flame was lit today and began its journey to Turin? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT
 
I can't understand why RMT takes it SO seriously if he believes it is a hoax.
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If you understand the theory I posit in this thread, it should be simple for you to understand why I take it seriously. I am a US patriot, that's why. In an age where information can be used as a weapon more easily than attacks of Force or weapons of Energetics, I choose to fight the bad science information of The John Titor Experiment as a means to combat it.
But I bet by the end of this year, it would become obvious whether Titor was telling a lie or not.
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It already is. 34 days is not going to change the landscape all that much.

RMT
 
34 days is not going to change the landscape all that much.
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But it oculd change the landscape enough to allow somthing to happen early next year though. Of course that wouldn't make Titor's story any less BS. I personally don't think Titor was a terrorist operation.
 
>If you understand the theory I posit in this thread, it should be simple for you to understand why I take it seriously.<

RMT- the problem, or my problem, is that you have the tendency to dismiss something then carry on and on about it, usually citing yourself and your personal conclusions. Then you use that as the basis to judge everyone else's opinion, as if people should read your posts before coming up with their own conclusions. And if they don't read your conclusions before you post, you usually start by pointing that out.

>I am a US patriot, that's why.<

I feel I am as well- I would happily die for a good enough cause like if it made the world a better place. Problem is that in this world, there's lots of good ways to die.

>In an age where information can be used as a weapon more easily than attacks of Force or weapons of Energetics, I choose to fight the bad science information of The John Titor Experiment as a means to combat it.<

Okay but Darby pointed out that even when Titor was here there were many who did not believe him. He's been gone for five years and you're still here posting at least once a week, every week that Titor was a phony. I can pretty much say that everyone here knows you don't believe the Titor story; we get it already.

As far as the story itself, I have been constantly hit over the head that it's bad science. So if it's bad science then why are you constantly debunking it? Why are you giving it so much attention? Let it go!

Darby PMmed me at great length about Titor and it was all great information. I chose PM over posting because I don't want to constantly rehash the same ideas every week. One thing Darby was kind enough to explain to be is the concept of "dual positive spin black holes" or whatever they're called. Darby has a perfectly good explanation that shows it makes no sense and it's really hard to argue a point like that. I respect what he has to say and heck, it makes sense too but that doesn't mean I'm going to change my personal opinion of the Titor story and I'm not here pushing my theory because I have mine, you have yours and I ain't shoving mine down anyone's throat as much as simply saying look at EVERYTHING he said then look at the world around you! We're about to start the Olympics and we're a month away from 2006. When those things come to pass I still won't be ready to dismiss the Titor story for two reasons-

1. It's a great story.
2. A lot of what he had to say was important stuff.

I am not ready to dismiss something just because it's not true, not when there is still salient information to get from it and a lot of what Titor said about the road we're headed down also happens to be right on. No one can argue that there's more wrong than right in the world today!
 
When those things come to pass I still won't be ready to dismiss the Titor story for two reasons-

1. It's a great story.
2. A lot of what he had to say was important stuff.

I am not ready to dismiss something just because it's not true, not when there is still salient information to get from it and a lot of what Titor said about the road we're headed down also happens to be right on. No one can argue that there's more wrong than right in the world today!
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I've been saying this since I started posting on this board (as Cryomaniac).
 
Jmpet,
RMT- the problem, or my problem, is that you have the tendency to dismiss something then carry on and on about it, usually citing yourself and your personal conclusions. Then you use that as the basis to judge everyone else's opinion, as if people should read your posts before coming up with their own conclusions. And if they don't read your conclusions before you post, you usually start by pointing that out.
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I am sorry you have a problem with how I post, or what I post. I do not deny your freedom to tell us about this problem, as I hope you do not deny me the freedom to post about what I will, in the manner I will.
Problem is that in this world, there's lots of good ways to die.
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We must choose wisely, yes? I have chosen the things that I am willing to die for. Have you?
As far as the story itself, I have been constantly hit over the head that it's bad science. So if it's bad science then why are you constantly debunking it? Why are you giving it so much attention? Let it go!
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Do you assume that all of the reasons, situations, and circumstances for why I do what I do are clearly available to you here, in this forum? Could it be possible that there are other things, other circumstances, and other events occurring in my life, beyond this forum, that may have a bearing on what I do? Both here and elsewhere?
When those things come to pass I still won't be ready to dismiss the Titor story for two reasons-

1. It's a great story.
2. A lot of what he had to say was important stuff.
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Such could be said of any story with a moral. I will not debate, in the least, the foundational aspects of various moralities of Titor's story. Certainly, people can get inspiration from anywhere they wish, in any manner they wish. I believe, if you check, that my posts are generally pointing out errors in logic associated with people who, essentially, are saying something similar to: "Yeah, but if you interpret his story in THIS way, it COULD BE TRUE..."

Again, I do not debate the moralities and lessons of Titor's Tale (I think I'll copyright that saying!). Rather, I debate and exhibit facts to counter those people who claim that Titor predicted things that have come to pass. And I especially have fun debating those people who seek to continue to drag the "it could be true, he could have been real" along year after year. The end of this year is going to be a banner year in evidence for such folks... but will they accept the facts? Likely not. Will they continue to say "it could be true, he could have been real"? Some will, some may disappear, some may give up and admit he was a hoax. We shall see.

RMT
 
What is the compulsion you have with insults, MEM? I know it is just a flaw in your personality, but what drives you to have to call people names, just because you don't agree with what they say?

I feel sad for you,
RMT
 
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