John Titor Fact Check ✔

No, I wasn't implying that Ai wrote any of your responses. Your answers seem genuine and that is difficult to feign.

I asked that question because (like you said) as far as science knows, there is nothing inside of a quark. How can there be nothing inside of something? Even in a vacuum there is something. BTW, nothing is something, which means that nothing isn't even nothing.




On the grand scale of the universe, from the smallest things we know of, to the largest thing we know of, people sit on the lower side of the middle of everything. I think a 50-story building is approximately the middle of the scale of the universe. In other words, from a quark's point of view, we are the size of the universe. For the universe, we are the size of a quark. If the universe thought we had nothing inside of us, it would be very wrong. I suspect the same applies to the quark from our relative perspective thinking that the quark is empty. We just haven't discovered a tool of measurement to detect anything smaller than a quark yet.

That is why I believe that:

Precise calculation is a myth. Zero being an approximation is reality on the grand scale of everything. But not just zero, every number.
No, I wasn't implying that Ai wrote any of your responses. Your answers seem genuine and that is difficult to feign.

I asked that question because (like you said) as far as science knows, there is nothing inside of a quark. How can there be nothing inside of something? Even in a vacuum there is something. BTW, nothing is something, which means that nothing isn't even nothing.




On the grand scale of the universe, from the smallest things we know of, to the largest thing we know of, people sit on the lower side of the middle of everything. I think a 50-story building is approximately the middle of the scale of the universe. In other words, from a quark's point of view, we are the size of the universe. For the universe, we are the size of a quark. If the universe thought we had nothing inside of us, it would be very wrong. I suspect the same applies to the quark from our relative perspective thinking that the quark is empty. We just haven't discovered a tool of measurement to detect anything smaller than a quark yet.

That is why I believe that:

Precise calculation is a myth. Zero being an approximation is reality on the grand scale of everything. But not just zero, every number.

You're thinking of calculus, when infinity approaches zero but never reaches zero.
No, I wasn't implying that Ai wrote any of your responses. Your answers seem genuine and that is difficult to feign.

I asked that question because (like you said) as far as science knows, there is nothing inside of a quark. How can there be nothing inside of something? Even in a vacuum there is something. BTW, nothing is something, which means that nothing isn't even nothing.




On the grand scale of the universe, from the smallest things we know of, to the largest thing we know of, people sit on the lower side of the middle of everything. I think a 50-story building is approximately the middle of the scale of the universe. In other words, from a quark's point of view, we are the size of the universe. For the universe, we are the size of a quark. If the universe thought we had nothing inside of us, it would be very wrong. I suspect the same applies to the quark from our relative perspective thinking that the quark is empty. We just haven't discovered a tool of measurement to detect anything smaller than a quark yet.

That is why I believe that:

Precise calculation is a myth. Zero being an approximation is reality on the grand scale of everything. But not just zero, every number.

You're thinking of infinity. Infinity in calculus approaches zero but never reaches it. And as for quarks, we haven't DETECTED anything in smaller, yet, so you're thinking there is an infinite amount of "something" in side of quarks, or anything for that matter. Now you're blowing my mind. Maybe I'm just thinking incorrectly when I say "zero divergence". I see a "place in time" as a point with coordinates, so going back should be possible with the same technique, expecially if it's quantum. Maybe you're right and zero isn't invovled. I'll think about this. Thanks for your perspective.
 
You're thinking of calculus, when infinity approaches zero but never reaches zero.


You're thinking of infinity. Infinity in calculus approaches zero but never reaches it. And as for quarks, we haven't DETECTED anything in smaller, yet, so you're thinking there is an infinite amount of "something" in side of quarks, or anything for that matter. Now you're blowing my mind. Maybe I'm just thinking incorrectly when I say "zero divergence". I see a "place in time" as a point with coordinates, so going back should be possible with the same technique, expecially if it's quantum. Maybe you're right and zero isn't invovled. I'll think about this. Thanks for your perspective.
Yes, infinite. When I read about fractals, they talked about the coastline paradox. The smaller the tool used to measure it, the more the coastline starts measuring out to infinite. Anyways, thanks for listening.
 
However, John said right here on this website that the shape of a singularity is the shape of a Torus.
I think you're referring to a Kerr-Newman (charged and rotating) black hole with a ring, not a torus, singularity. That's how Titor described the spacetime surrounding his black holes. A torus "singularity" in a Kerr-Newman black hole isn't possible. A ring singularity is a mathematically 1D surface. It has to "thickness", volume or interior. A torus is a 2D surface embedded in a 3Dl space. The ring and the torus are diametrically opposed. Had he said, as a matter of fact, that the singularity was toroidal that would instantly invalidate his entire thesis.

Further, he said his gadget injected electrons across the event horizon into the singularity to both charge and spin up the black hole. He called it a Kerr black hole, which was incorrect. It was a Kerr Newman black hole; both spinning (angular momentum) and electrically charged. After injecting just a very small number of electrons across the event horizon his Kerr-Newman black hole would tear itself apart. The Coulomb force of those electrons packed into a space approaching infinitely small in volume simply can't exist. The charge -1 on an electron is tremendous compared to the mass of the electron. Put two in that proximity with no protons or other +1 charged particles in the area and it blows apart.

The math behind the concept of Kerr-Newman black holes is solid. But the physics is not. It's nice to know about for theoretical physics study but they just don't exist and you can't make one. This is where Titor's physics drastically fails. Based on Titor's own words that the mass of his entire gadget was ~500 lbs I estimated that the box and components would have a mass of 25 kg and each black hole would have a mass of 100 kg. We could quibble over the distribution but it wouldn't make any difference.

The math is straight forward. The "diameter" of his black holes would be about 10^-25 meters. The diameter of a proton is about 10^-15 meters. The black holes would be 10 billion times smaller than a proton but have an "extremely" unstable mass. In about 10^-18 seconds after forming the entire mass would evaporate radiating at a temperature of...wait for it...10^23 Kelvin and liberating about 10^32 Watts - a hundred thousand billion trillion watts. That's a hundred billion trillion degrees. "Slightly" hotter than a hydrogen bomb. It approached the Planck Limit - the temperature of the Big Bang. And he had two such items. Turn on his gadget and *Poof* Florida would seize to exist. Unlike nuclear devices that release their energy in about 1 second this baby will do it in 10^-18 seconds. Florida is in ruins - the Eastern Seaboard in ruins. And that just based on the physics we understand. Having an actual black hole runaway like that? Unlike nuclear bombs, there will be quantum effects that we can't currently predict but they will not be pleasant.
 
I think you're referring to a Kerr-Newman (charged and rotating) black hole with a ring, not a torus, singularity. That's how Titor described the spacetime surrounding his black holes. A torus "singularity" in a Kerr-Newman black hole isn't possible. A ring singularity is a mathematically 1D surface. It has to "thickness", volume or interior. A torus is a 2D surface embedded in a 3Dl space. The ring and the torus are diametrically opposed. Had he said, as a matter of fact, that the singularity was toroidal that would instantly invalidate his entire thesis.

Further, he said his gadget injected electrons across the event horizon into the singularity to both charge and spin up the black hole. He called it a Kerr black hole, which was incorrect. It was a Kerr Newman black hole; both spinning (angular momentum) and electrically charged. After injecting just a very small number of electrons across the event horizon his Kerr-Newman black hole would tear itself apart. The Coulomb force of those electrons packed into a space approaching infinitely small in volume simply can't exist. The charge -1 on an electron is tremendous compared to the mass of the electron. Put two in that proximity with no protons or other +1 charged particles in the area and it blows apart.

The math behind the concept of Kerr-Newman black holes is solid. But the physics is not. It's nice to know about for theoretical physics study but they just don't exist and you can't make one. This is where Titor's physics drastically fails. Based on Titor's own words that the mass of his entire gadget was ~500 lbs I estimated that the box and components would have a mass of 25 kg and each black hole would have a mass of 100 kg. We could quibble over the distribution but it wouldn't make any difference.

The math is straight forward. The "diameter" of his black holes would be about 10^-25 meters. The diameter of a proton is about 10^-15 meters. The black holes would be 10 billion times smaller than a proton but have an "extremely" unstable mass. In about 10^-18 seconds after forming the entire mass would evaporate radiating at a temperature of...wait for it...10^23 Kelvin and liberating about 10^32 Watts - a hundred thousand billion trillion watts. That's a hundred billion trillion degrees. "Slightly" hotter than a hydrogen bomb. It approached the Planck Limit - the temperature of the Big Bang. And he had two such items. Turn on his gadget and *Poof* Florida would seize to exist. Unlike nuclear devices that release their energy in about 1 second this baby will do it in 10^-18 seconds. Florida is in ruins - the Eastern Seaboard in ruins. And that just based on the physics we understand. Having an actual black hole runaway like that? Unlike nuclear bombs, there will be quantum effects that we can't currently predict but they will not be pleasant.
You are absolutely correct in stating that TT_0 never described the singularity as a torus. To my knowledge, he never used the word "torus" in any of his posts. However, in A Time Traveler’s Tale, excerpts from his posts do contain references to a "doughnut" or "doughnut-shaped" structure when discussing his micro-singularity.

. . . . ......... ..................... ........... . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . ... . ..


The Physics of Time Travel: ACCELERATION = TIME DILATION

"As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the “twins paradox”. As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of “time travel” should have been proven already on this world line with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single world line. You will not meet yourself."

GRAVITY = ACCELERATION

As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and

_ acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time

travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving; it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE

The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power.

As one twin approaches the event horizon, or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin’s watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another world line and it’s one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.

ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DOUGHNUT - SHAPED SINGULARITY

Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a doughnut. These odd properties also have a pronounced effect on the black hole’s gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity.

DOUGHNUT - SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLD LINE

Another more interesting result of passing through a doughnut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or world line. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr black holes or you can examine the calculations of (famous physicist).

. . . . . . . . . .. .. . . ............................ ....................... ................


Darby, your point was that even if John referred to the singularity as a doughnut or a torus, it would only further expose inaccuracies in his claims, reinforcing the idea that his story was a hoax. He lacked the knowledge to substantiate his assertions, which may very well be true. You've illuminated aspects of this discussion that I hadn't previously considered.

The equation Kerr uses accounts for a ring of infinite density, not a doughnut-shaped singularity, which does not align with General Relativity (GTR). This is yet another mistake John made—referencing Special Relativity (STR) when he was actually discussing GTR.

However, what if John was merely using Kerr black holes as a conceptual analogy, a relatable framework to help explain what was actually being described—a naked singularity? To be fair, he specifically referred to them as "micro-singularities," not "micro-black holes." He was deliberate in his terminology.

Kerr, Tipler, Newman, Kramer, Jerry, or even Cal Worthington would not have formulated an equation that accounts for a naked singularity the size of a fraction of an electron. The solutions proposed by Kerr, Tipler, and Newman are deeply dependent on the entire spacetime geometry, not just the singularity itself. If one were to isolate the singularity as an independent entity, their equations would break down or become meaningless.

Ultimately, my argument could be dismissed as a "flux capacitor" defense—an appeal to speculation rather than analytical proof. The mathematical evidence contradicts John's claims, and I acknowledge that. Yet, I also recognize the effort John put into being the world's smartest dumbass. Theoretical constructs, by their nature, are impossible to prove or disprove without direct observation. As far as I am aware, CERN has not tested the development of a naked singularity. Nor has anyone developed an equation that describes the existence of a naked singularity captured, and rotating in any meaningful way. Most equations dealing with singularities, such as those in General Relativity, rely on the presence of an event horizon to maintain physical consistency. If a singularity were "captured" and rotating, it would challenge fundamental assumptions about spacetime structure and stability.

A friend of mine, whom I'll call "Bob," put it succinctly: "They are not 'objects' with equations, but failure points of our best maps."

- Jay
 
I think you're referring to a Kerr-Newman (charged and rotating) black hole with a ring, not a torus, singularity. That's how Titor described the spacetime surrounding his black holes. A torus "singularity" in a Kerr-Newman black hole isn't possible. A ring singularity is a mathematically 1D surface. It has to "thickness", volume or interior. A torus is a 2D surface embedded in a 3Dl space. The ring and the torus are diametrically opposed. Had he said, as a matter of fact, that the singularity was toroidal that would instantly invalidate his entire thesis.

Further, he said his gadget injected electrons across the event horizon into the singularity to both charge and spin up the black hole. He called it a Kerr black hole, which was incorrect. It was a Kerr Newman black hole; both spinning (angular momentum) and electrically charged. After injecting just a very small number of electrons across the event horizon his Kerr-Newman black hole would tear itself apart. The Coulomb force of those electrons packed into a space approaching infinitely small in volume simply can't exist. The charge -1 on an electron is tremendous compared to the mass of the electron. Put two in that proximity with no protons or other +1 charged particles in the area and it blows apart.

The math behind the concept of Kerr-Newman black holes is solid. But the physics is not. It's nice to know about for theoretical physics study but they just don't exist and you can't make one. This is where Titor's physics drastically fails. Based on Titor's own words that the mass of his entire gadget was ~500 lbs I estimated that the box and components would have a mass of 25 kg and each black hole would have a mass of 100 kg. We could quibble over the distribution but it wouldn't make any difference.

The math is straight forward. The "diameter" of his black holes would be about 10^-25 meters. The diameter of a proton is about 10^-15 meters. The black holes would be 10 billion times smaller than a proton but have an "extremely" unstable mass. In about 10^-18 seconds after forming the entire mass would evaporate radiating at a temperature of...wait for it...10^23 Kelvin and liberating about 10^32 Watts - a hundred thousand billion trillion watts. That's a hundred billion trillion degrees. "Slightly" hotter than a hydrogen bomb. It approached the Planck Limit - the temperature of the Big Bang. And he had two such items. Turn on his gadget and *Poof* Florida would seize to exist. Unlike nuclear devices that release their energy in about 1 second this baby will do it in 10^-18 seconds. Florida is in ruins - the Eastern Seaboard in ruins. And that just based on the physics we understand. Having an actual black hole runaway like that? Unlike nuclear bombs, there will be quantum effects that we can't currently predict but they will not be pleasant.
actually.....

there is a way you might be able to make it work, and that is to turn the electrons into a stable or contained condensate. that probably is not the right name for it. it would be a new state of matter not seen before, where the electrons behave together as if they are a single electron. so, imagine a cloud of them dechohereing and cohereing, where at any single tick, only one of them materializes at a time. the rest are like a condensate in the quantum substrate. now, run this really fast. you have what looks like a single electron in our universe, but an intensified and dense electron condensate behind the scenes
 
actually.....

there is a way you might be able to make it work, and that is to turn the electrons into a stable or contained condensate. that probably is not the right name for it. it would be a new state of matter not seen before, where the electrons behave together as if they are a single electron. so, imagine a cloud of them dechohereing and cohereing, where at any single tick, only one of them materializes at a time. the rest are like a condensate in the quantum substrate. now, run this really fast. you have what looks like a single electron in our universe, but an intensified and dense electron condensate behind the scenes
You see... 🤨 Exactly... 😁That's the spirit. 😵 🤪🤯
 
The math is straight forward. The "diameter" of his black holes would be about 10^-25 meters. The diameter of a proton is about 10^-15 meters. The black holes would be 10 billion times smaller than a proton but have an "extremely" unstable mass. In about 10^-18 seconds after forming the entire mass would evaporate radiating at a temperature of...wait for it...10^23 Kelvin and liberating about 10^32 Watts - a hundred thousand billion trillion watts. That's a hundred billion trillion degrees. "Slightly" hotter than a hydrogen bomb. It approached the Planck Limit - the temperature of the Big Bang. And he had two such items. Turn on his gadget and *Poof* Florida would seize to exist. Unlike nuclear devices that release their energy in about 1 second this baby will do it in 10^-18 seconds. Florida is in ruins - the Eastern Seaboard in ruins. And that just based on the physics we understand. Having an actual black hole runaway like that? Unlike nuclear bombs, there will be quantum effects that we can't currently predict but they will not be pleasant.

While what you say is true, the mathematical equivalent of these black holes running as a gate on a QPU would not create these devastating effects.

Paula
 
the mathematical equivalent of these black holes
What is the mathematical equivalent of a physical black hole and how does a quantum computer, which isn't magical or have any particularly special properties other than it handle certain but not all classes of computations better than a classical computer, by-pass physical laws?
 
What is the mathematical equivalent of a physical black hole and how does a quantum computer, which isn't magical or have any particularly special properties other than it handle certain but not all classes of computations better than a classical computer, by-pass physical laws?

I’m not saying quantum computers bypass physical laws because they don’t. What I’m saying is that they model reality differently than classical ones. I’m just theorizing here, but I think it’s possible a quantum computer could simulate the mathematical behavior of a black hole, not the object itself, but the effects we associate with it....like time dilation, entanglement across a horizon, and how observation changes the outcome.

I know these things aren’t literal, but if you can replicate the math and interactions using quantum logic, like entangling qubits to represent curved spacetime, then maybe you can explore some of the same principles in a safe, virtual way.

I’m not pretending to be a physicist. I’m just someone who sees patterns and possibilities. And maybe there’s something to gain by looking at it from a different angle. Besides... isn’t it all about frequencies....how things resonate, sync, or distort. That’s where it gets interesting.
 
there is a way you might be able to make it work, and that is to turn the electrons into a stable or contained condensate. that probably is not the right name for it. it would be a new state of matter not seen before, where the electrons behave together as if they are a single electron. so, imagine a cloud of them dechohereing and cohereing, where at any single tick, only one of them materializes at a time. the rest are like a condensate in the quantum substrate. now, run this really fast. you have what looks like a single electron in our universe, but an intensified and dense electron condensate behind the scenes
Electrons are Fermions. Fermions obey the Pauli Exclusion Principle. That means no two electrons can have the same quantum state. One part of that state, once you observe them, is position. They can't occupy the same position state thus they cannot form a Bose-Einstein Condensate - ever. And this doesn't even take their -1 charge into account relative to Coulomb repulsion.

It was a nice try but what you offered is not a plausible extension of quantum mechanics. You’ve invoked a new particle-like condensate of Fermions that violates the Pauli exclusion principle, tries to avoid Coulomb repulsion, and is inconsistent with current quantum field theories. If you go that far you should at least attempt to offer some sort of physical mechanism that would allow and explain the thought experiment.

And it appears that you really don't understand coherence and decoherence in QM. They are not opposites. A coherent system has neither interacted with the environment or itself. That state can only exist for ultra tiny fractions of a second in the real world. A decoherent system has interacted with the environment. The wave function collapses (just how that comes about depends on what form of QM you are referring to). This is an irreversible state. You can't force the system back into a coherent state. Why not, you ask. Because in order to theoretically reverse the state you have to interact with the system. Interacting with the system is what caused the wave to collapse in the first place. You can't make a system that oscillates between coherent and decoherent.
 
but I think it’s possible a quantum computer could simulate the mathematical behavior of a black hole, not the object itself, but the effects we associate with it....like time dilation, entanglement across a horizon, and how observation changes the outcome.
There you are absolutely correct. Any computer can run a simulation. The more complex the simulation, obviously, the more complex the computer needs to be. That may or may not need a quantum computer. But yes, virtually any simulation can be run.

The question would be does the simulation mimic reality? That's the purpose of running the simulation, right? The math might work out but does it reflect a physical reality that can be put to the test by the experimental physicists? As an example Kurt Gödel proposed a universe that had closed timelike curves (CTCs). But in doing so the math requires that the universe as a whole be rotating. You can run a computer simulation and everything works out just fine...so long as you leave out at least one detail. If the universe is rotating where did the net angular momentum come from? A universal net angular momentum doesn't just violate conservation of angular momentum it shatters and completely destroys it. So you have a simulation that works in a universe that surely is not this universe.
 
There you are absolutely correct. Any computer can run a simulation. The more complex the simulation, obviously, the more complex the computer needs to be. That may or may not need a quantum computer. But yes, virtually any simulation can be run.

The question would be does the simulation mimic reality? That's the purpose of running the simulation, right? The math might work out but does it reflect a physical reality that can be put to the test by the experimental physicists? As an example Kurt Gödel proposed a universe that had closed timelike curves (CTCs). But in doing so the math requires that the universe as a whole be rotating. You can run a computer simulation and everything works out just fine...so long as you leave out at least one detail. If the universe is rotating where did the net angular momentum come from? A universal net angular momentum doesn't just violate conservation of angular momentum it shatters and completely destroys it. So you have a simulation that works in a universe that surely is not this universe.
In the classical sense you're right, but that's not what I'm doing, to be honest. Quantum computers emit real signals...frequencies..pulses..electrical fields. These exist outside of any simulation. They are physical results. So, mimicking a rotating universe doesn't matter. Frequencies can influence the environment in subtle ways. If frequency can influence matter, perception, and time flow, why wouldn’t a quantum pattern be capable of nudging other systems, or timelines, even? Reality doesn't always move by force. It shifts. Sometimes it's just about tuning to the right key.
And this won't be taught in classical physics. But I like to think outside the box.
 
Electrons are Fermions. Fermions obey the Pauli Exclusion Principle. That means no two electrons can have the same quantum state. One part of that state, once you observe them, is position. They can't occupy the same position state thus they cannot form a Bose-Einstein Condensate - ever. And this doesn't even take their -1 charge into account relative to Coulomb repulsion.

It was a nice try but what you offered is not a plausible extension of quantum mechanics. You’ve invoked a new particle-like condensate of Fermions that violates the Pauli exclusion principle, tries to avoid Coulomb repulsion, and is inconsistent with current quantum field theories. If you go that far you should at least attempt to offer some sort of physical mechanism that would allow and explain the thought experiment.

And it appears that you really don't understand coherence and decoherence in QM. They are not opposites. A coherent system has neither interacted with the environment or itself. That state can only exist for ultra tiny fractions of a second in the real world. A decoherent system has interacted with the environment. The wave function collapses (just how that comes about depends on what form of QM you are referring to). This is an irreversible state. You can't force the system back into a coherent state. Why not, you ask. Because in order to theoretically reverse the state you have to interact with the system. Interacting with the system is what caused the wave to collapse in the first place. You can't make a system that oscillates between coherent and decoherent.
Well, you can't know what you don't know. That was my intention when starting this thread. I had come across this conversation in the posts about doughnut-shaped singularities. The little I could scrape together, seemed like an interesting conversation starter. I wasn't sure if this was talked about already and it stoked my interest. Still, thank you for the insight, I was hoping for some technical feedback. A pleasure as always.
 
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