From a Text Written in1566

[KerrTexas]

I have been making my way through a text ; Yucatan Before and After the Conquest written by Friar Diego de Landa in the year 1566.

I can't help but notice specific passages and the comments that were written in this text. Some really stand out....

"...the Cubans were fortunate—it was as least quick total extermination."

How nice, at least it was a quick total extermination as opposed to a long total extermination.


"... It is said that the first Spaniards to come to Yucatan were Gerónimo de Aguilar, a native of Ecija, and his companions. These, in 1511, upon the break-up at Darien resulting from the dissensions between Diego de Nicueza and Vasco Núñez de Balboa, followed Valdivia on his voyage in a caravel to San Domingo, to give account to the admiral and the governor, and to bring 20,000 ducats of the king's. On the way to Jamaica the caravel grounded on the shoals known as the Viboras, where it was lost with all but twenty men. These went with Valdivia in a boat without sails, and only some poor oars and no provisions, and were at sea for thirteen days. After nearly half of them had died of hunger, the rest reached the coast of Yucatan at a province called that of the Maya, whence the language of Yucatan is known as Mayat’an, meaning the 'Maya speech.' and is believed to have become an idolater like them."


I found the last comment by de Landa to be interesting.


"... At Campeche they found a building in the sea near to the land, all square and in steps, on the top of which was an idol with two fierce animals devouring his flanks; also a great thick serpent swallowing a lion; the animals were covered with the blood of sacrifices. "

I don't know if the translator's made a mistake with this passage, or applied the wrong definition to the story as described, however, I don't recall that at that time there were "lions" on the South American Continent.

"... Fifteen years ago a ship laden with many people and goods foundered, and all were drowned save one Majuelas and four others, who seized hold of a great piece of wood from the ship, and thus went three or four days without reaching any of the islets until their strength gave out and ail sank except Majuelas. He came out half dead and recovered himself eating snails and shellfish; then from the islet he reached the mainland on a balsa or raft which he made as best he could out of branches. Having come to land, and while hunting for food, he came upon a crab that bit off his thumb at the first joint, and caused him intense pain. Thence he set out through difficult bush to try to reach Salamanca, and when night came he climbed a tree from which he saw a great tiger waylay and kill a deer; then when morning came he ate what the tiger had left ."

Once again, I wonder if somewhere a mistake was made...since I can't find anything regarding "tiger's" existing on the South American Continent. Also, that must have been one big, mean crab, to bite off a man's thumb.

This "book" makes for an interesting read...and has many area's that cause pause and wonderment at what is being said in this book written in 1566. Below is the link to the book and it is a rather extensive book to read, containing quite a bit of interesting information.

If there is anyone here interested in reading this text with me, perhaps we can begin a discussion of it here in this thread.

Yucatan Before and After the Conquest by Diego de Landa

 

[KerrTexas]

"... Some old men of Yucatan say that they have heard from their ancestors that this country was peopled by a certain race who came from the East, whom God delivered by opening for them twelve roads through the sea. If this is true, all the inhabitants of the Indies must be of Jewish descent because, the straits of Magellan having been passed, they must have spread over more than 2000 leagues of territory now governed by Spain ."

Hmmmm...

Mayan's origin's are from the East ?
12 roads through the sea ?
inhabitants of the Indies ?
Jewish descent ?

"... While the author of this work was in that country, there was found in a building that had been demolished a large urn with three handles, painted on the outside with silvered colors, and containing the ashes of a cremated body, together with some pieces of the arms and legs, of an unbelievable size, and with three fine beads or counters of the kind the Indians use for money. At Izamal there were eleven or twelve of these buildings in all, with no memory of their builders; on the site of one of these, at the instance of the Indians, there was established the monastery of San Antonio, in the year 1550 ."

No memory of their builders ?

Who were the builders if this text was written in 1566, and the author was speaking to the old men of this area ?

An urn with ashes of a cremated body with pieces of the arms and legs of unbelievable size...is the author referring to the Urn ? or the arms and legs ?

( The following is from another text, but seems interesting if linked to the story that the inhabitants of the Yucatan region came from the east. The text is entitled " A SABOBA ORIGIN-MYTH " written in 1902 and refers to the Saboba Indian Tribe located near the Hemet region of Southern California )

"... Before my people came here they lived far, far away in the land that is in the heart of the Setting Sun. But Siwash, our great God, told Uuyot, the warrior captain of my people, that we must come away from this land and sail away and away in a direction that he would give us. Under Uuyot's orders my people built big boats and then with Siwash himself leading them, and with Uuyot as captain, they launched these into the ocean and rowed away from the shore. There was no light on the ocean, Everything was covered with a dark fog, and it was only by singing as they rowed that the boats were enabled to keep together.

It was still dark and foggy when the boats landed on the shores of this land, and my ancestors groped about in the darkness, wondering why they had been brought hither. Then, suddenly, the heavens opened, and lightnings flashed and thunders roared and rains fell, and a great earthquake shook all the earth. Indeed, all the elements of the earth, ocean, and heaven, seemed to be mixed up together, and, with terror in their hearts and silence on their tongues, my people stood still awaiting what would happen further. Though no voice had spoken they knew something was going to happen, and they were breathless in their anxiety to know what it was.

Then they turned to Uuyot and asked him what the raging of the elements meant. Gently he calmed their fears and bade them be silent and wait. As they waited, a terrible clap of thunder rent the very heavens, and the vivid lightnings revealed the frightened people huddling together as a pack of sheep. But Uuyot stood alone, brave and fearless, facing the storm and daring the anger of Those Above. With a loud voice he cried out 'Wit-i-a-ko!' which signified 'Who's there? What do you want?'

But there was no response. The heavens were silent! the earth was silent! The ocean was silent! All nature was silent!

Then with a voice full of tremulous sadness and loving yearning for his people Uuyot said: 'My children, my own sons and daughters, something is wanted of us by Those Above. What it is I know not. Let us gather together and bring "pivat," and with it make the big smoke and then dance and dance until we are told what is wanted." So the people brought pivat--a native tobacco that grows in Southern California--and Uuyot brought the big ceremonial pipe which he had made out of rock, and he soon made the big smoke and blew the smoke up into the heavens while he urged the people to dance. They danced hour after hour until they grew tired, and Uuyot smoked all the time, but still he urged them to dance.

Then he called out again to Those Above, 'Wit-i-a-ko!' but still could obtain no response. This made him sad and disconsolate, and when the people saw Uuyot despondent and downhearted they became panic-stricken, and ceased to dance, and began to cling around him for comfort and protection. But poor Uuyot had none to give. He himself was saddest and most forsaken. of all, and he got up and bade the people leave him alone, as he wished to walk to and fro by himself. Then he made the people smoke and dance, and when they rested they knelt in a circle and prayed. But he walked away by himself, feeling keenly the refusal of Those Above to speak to him. His heart was deeply wounded.

But as the people prayed and danced and sang, a gentle light came stealing into the sky from the far, far east. Little by little the darkness was driven away. First the light was gray, then yellow, then white, and at last the glistening brilliancy of the sun filled all the land and covered the sky with glory. The sun had arisen for the first time, and in its light and warmth my people knew they had the favor of Those Above, and they were contented."


From this account, these inhabitants came from the West.

What event caused these folks to escape in their boats and set sail towards the East ?

Even though this is not from de Landa, I find it interesting to compare the stories of where the inhabitants of each of these locations are saying they came from...and wonder if the event as described by the Saboba "Myth" also caused these people of the Yucatan region to head out across the "12 roads of the Ocean" and head West.

 

[Darby]

For both of you I advise restraint in the translation of the texts. We have translations of texts written over 5 centuries ago in Mixtec/Nahuatl dialetcs, translated into 16th Century Spanish (Castillian) and further translated into other European Romantic and Germanic languages such as English. A lot gets lost (or added to) in the translation especially when Rome had to pass judgement on the original translation by the priests before it could be published. Specifically Pope Pius V in 1566 had to pass judgement. His reign as Pope was the embodiment of the Inquisition.

 

[KerrTexas]

For both of you I advise restraint in the translation of the texts. We have translations of texts written over 5 centuries ago in Mixtec/Nahuatl dialetcs, translated into 16th Century Spanish (Castillian) and further translated into other European Romantic and Germanic languages such as English. A lot gets lost (or added to) in the translation especially when Rome had to pass judgement on the original translation by the priests before it could be published. Specifically Pope Pius V in 1566 had to pass judgement. His reign as Pope was the embodiment of the Inquisition

There isn't a both of you, I am the author of both the posts above your's.

The reason why I wanted to discuss this text was because of the fact that the author of the Spanish text, Friar Diego de Landa, obviously was done from a religious extremist's point of view, however, Diego did provide alot of valid, useful information through his observations while in the region, and from his experiences with the Mayan civilization.

And because of the type of man he was, care does need to be taken in reading from his text...

Thus the sentence... If there is anyone here interested in reading this text with me, perhaps we can begin a discussion of it here in this thread.

The purpose of discussion is to seperate the fact from fiction, to root out the personal remarks of de Landa, and take a look at the other portions that hold information that may assist with understanding the world of that time period, what was going on, and maybe gain an insight into the Mayan civilization.

The text entitled " A SABOBA ORIGIN-MYTH " as quoted from in the second post, was written in 1902, which would be a bit too late for Pope Pius V in 1566 to pass judgement on this text.

But, thanks for the warning, anyway.

Although, I don't think I'll be spending much time on this for awhile, since the billiard thing is stuck in my head now, thank-you.