T12
Chrono Cadet
by Richard M. Dolan
Phenomena Magazine
September 10, 2004
Earlier in 2004, Phenomena Editor Richard Dolan interviewed Dr.
Steven Greer.
Greer is the founder of the Center for [the] Study of
Extraterrestrial intelligence (CSETI), which claimes to have
initiated communication and contact with extraterrestrials on Earth.
In addition, Greer has founded the Disclosure Project, dedicated to
ending official secrecy regarding UFOs.
Dolan (D): In 1990, you formed the Center for the Study of
Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI),and within three years you're
getting an invitation to meet with Laurence Rockefeller. How did that
happen so quickly?
Greer (G): To be honest with you, I think it was the force of the
message. Not only had we put together an enormous amount of
documentation about the phenomenon, but we had also formulated teams
that were going all over the world, and had reproducible results with
hundreds of witnesses - who had been able to signal to these objects.
We had different teams in England, or Belgium, or Mexico, or places
in the United States. From a number of them we got videotapes,
photographs, or other witnesses who saw the event happening.
D: Some of the stories are extraordinary.
G: Yes, and they're all absolutely true. In fact they're way
understated. This is what caught the attention of people like
Laurence Rockefeller, Mrs. Buttros Ghali [wife of the former UN
General Secretary], former head of Army Intelligence General
Stubblebine, and eventually friends of the President [Clinton]. Some
very good friends of the President became cognizant of what we were
doing and urgently wanted us to get information to the President, to
his science advisor, as well as to some of the senior military
intelligence people in his administration after he got elected in
1993.
So we put together briefing materials and had meetings. The main
thing is that this is an inside game. I hate to use that term, but
this has mainly been a process of educating two classes of people who
are "insiders."
One are the people who are on the inside, who should know, but don't,
such as Presidents, CIA directors, and so on. The other part of it is
educating, from a new paradigm, the national and international
security control group - which some call MJ-12 - that deals with
these issues. That is a committee of about two or three hundred
people, and I know a number of them.
The issue here is to educate them to the need for disclosure, for
safe applications of technologies, and for this matter to be handled
wisely. We feel that it has been handled promiscuously and
dangerously. If you look at some of the things that have happened
over the last fifty years, aside from it eroding the rule of law and
democracy, the actual handling of the subject itself has been
dangerous.
It's a very dangerous thing for example, for the Commander in Chief
of Atlantic Command, Admiral Harry Trane, not to have had adequate
information on the subject and to scramble jets up and down the
eastern seaboard trying to force down one of these objects. [This
refers to an alleged military-UFO encounter from May 1981 - Ed.].
This kind of behavior, which has mainly taken place in a vacuum of
secrecy, is a danger to the national security.
You have people who have a need to know who can't find out anything.
And then you have other people who do know and are controlling it,
but they're in a cult of secrecy that becomes hermetically sealed.
D: You briefed CIA director Woolsey, and there's talk that you
briefed some other very high-level Clinton officials. I'm wondering
who those were. For example, the name Al Gore came up. Did you in
fact brief Al Gore on UFOs?
G: Well, there are a number of people in public life that I don't
want to comment on, who we are currently meeting with. They are and
extensive group of people. They include people who are currently
friends with every living president. There's not a living president
who doesn't have a close associate on our advisory team. So from
that, you can extrapolate.
D: Can you give a sense of when these briefings were happening, the
kinds of things what were said? What do you think of Bill Clinton
himself, and his sense of all this?
G: First of all, for the most part, very few people in most
administrations knew anything about the subject. They knew what they
saw on a badly-done documentary on the Discovery Channel. It's a sad
statement, but that is really true.
This is not just the executive branch. I met with a member of the
intelligence community back in the 1990's. That was Senator Richard
Bryan, and it was traumatic. I use that word because there's this
sense that [these officials] know this is the truth. But the problem
is that if you make the case this is real, and you're talking to
someone who is the head of the CIA, or is a high official in the
intelligence community, you find they have been denied access.
They've made an inquiry through channels and have been told no such
project exists.
This is frightening. Not in the sense that the phenomenon is is
frightening, but that people could be at those levels of
responsibility and operational divisions where they really do have a
need to know, and where they are completely left in the dark. I would
say that none of the reactions have been, "oh this is silly, it's
nonsense." This is important to hear: I haven't had a single meeting
with a high official, either scientific, political, or military, who
has had that reaction. Not in the least.
D: What were some of the other types of reactions?
G: Dismay, deep concern, and great interest.
D: Would you say they generally believe there's some kind of cover up
going on?
G: Oh yeah. I had with a member of congress who is on the House
National Security Committee who said to me, bluntly: "We of course
are window dressing."
I'll never forget the poignant moment when we were finishing the
nearly three-hour meeting with CIA Director [James] Woolsey and his
wife, Dr. Sue Woolsey (who at the time was the Chief Operating
Officer at the National Academy of Sciences). He was getting ready to
leave, Secret Service were out front, and I gave him a summary packet
with a set of recommendations for the Clinton Administration. This
was in the December of 1993. He looked at me and said, "Dr. Greer,
how can we disclose what we are being denied access to? What would
that say to the world?"
It's a very sobering thought, because part of the illusion here is
that people we elect are actually in control. They're not. This is
something that most people don't discuss. These [government
officials] are not stupid or naive. Clinton was a very bright man.
Cohen was a very brilliant man. Woolsey was a very smart man. They
know there's something going on.
When we did our first briefing for members of Congress in 1997, we
gathered about a dozen military witnesses of UFO events. Following
that, I had a meeting over at the Pentagon with a senior official, an
admiral at the Joint Chiefs of Staff level. My military advisor, a
man with great access to the senior flag officers, was a friend of
this gentleman. We went over there with a couple of these witnesses.
Prior to the meeting, I had given him some documents, code names, and
numbers. These were current code names and code numbers. He took them
and made inquiries at the Pentagon into these projects, and he hit
pay dirt. He actually located these projects. When he made an
inquiry, wanting to know what these projects were doing, he was flat
out told, "Sir, you don't have a need to know." This is an admiral
with the Intelligence Director. They told him he didn't have a need
to know. He was furious.
D: These are the code words for UFO related programs?
G: Yes. They're actually ETV, extraterrestrial vehicle, related. No
one uses the word UFO, by the way. UFO was coined after they knew
they weren't unidentified and they knew they didn't fly. (Laughs).
By the end of this briefing, this admiral said to me, "If this is
true, and I have no reason to doubt it, you're dealing with some of
the most powerful technologies. These are things that could do
circles around my B-2 stealth bombers." He also said, "Unless the
civilian authorities authorize me to push further, there's not much I
can do." I then told him what we were planning to do with the
Disclosure Project. To the extent that we could get people and
documents and other things, we were going to put them out there. He
looked at me and said, "If you can do it, do it."
I was in Britain meeting with the Ministry of Defence, and also the
former head of the Ministry of Defence, Lord Hill Norton. He's a Sea
Lord, a Five Star Admiral. At one point he asked, "Why the hell
wasn't I told about this when I was head of the Ministry of Defence?"
I said "Sir, what would you have done while you were head of the MoD,
and you found out that there was a clandestine group that was
transnational - e.g. transcended national borders - that had this
information. That had lied to the Presidents, Prime Ministers, and
high officials. that had used hundreds of billions of taxpayer
dollars to work on thies projects, and had sequestered them inside
private corporate structures. And had also, literally, engaged in
elimination - murder - in order to keep it secret?"
He looked at me and said, "I wouldn't have stood for it for one
bloody minute!" I said, "That's why they weren't going to tell you,
and that's why they will never tell you."
You see, the first thing these folks do is a soul biopsy. By that I
mean they're going to take a reading of you as a person. Your whole
person. If they don't think you'll go along with the game, they're
not going to tell you. Or they'll tell you disinformation, or set you
on the wrong track.
Whether or not you know has nothing to do with your position. This is
the big mistake that the UFO research community has made. Assumptions
have been make, [like] "oh, you're the head of the National Security
Agency, you know." Some NSA chiefs have known, some haven't. [Former
NSA Director] Bobby Ray Inman knew. Others haven't. Some CIA
directors had knowledge, others didn't. Bill Colby knew a great deal.
D: Is that why Bill Colby died?
G: Yeah, basically, I mean that's an untouched story.
D: He died in 1996, in what was described as an 'unfortunate boating
accident...
More- http://disclosureproject.org
*[Phenomena Magazine SGInterview Sept.10/04]*
